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5 comments:
Ok - I know Wikipedia is a bull-shit source...however, in looking up Theseus' ship (you should do the same...in the resolution part it states 4 different ways of looking at it) there is a theory called Four Dimensionalism...this is the excerpt from it:
"David Lewis and others have proposed that these problems can be solved by considering all things as 4-dimensional objects. An object is a spatially extended three-dimensional thing that also extends across the 4th dimension of time. This 4-dimensional object is made up of 3-dimensional time-slices. These are spatially extended things that exist only at individual points in time. An object is made up of a series of causally related time-slices. All time-slices are numerically identical to themselves. And the whole aggregate of time-slices, namely the 4-dimensional object, is also numerically identical with itself. But the individual time-slices can have qualitities that differ from each other."
-David Lewis,"Survival and Identity" (in Amelie O. Rorty [ed.] The Identities of Persons (1976; U. of California P.) Reprinted in his Philosophical Papers I.
By numerically identical they mean quantitatively identical.
So, over time, I think it is Theseus' original ship that is the original - and ultimately - it boils down to purpose. However, it is called Theseus' Paradox, so any answer can be true.
With respect to Ryan's comment... I think you may be confusing the question regarding "the ship of Theseus" with the idea of possession. We are not concerned with which ship Theseus owns... the question is what is the original ship. Maybe that'll clarify something for you.
With respect to Mary, I fail to see how 4-dimensionalism accounts for diachronic identity (identity OVER time).
It certainly seems to account for synchronic identity (identity at any one given time): thing A is equal to itself whenever A.
That the ship is equal to itself at any one point in time seems undeniable. The question is whether the ship at T1 is the same ship as the ship at Tn, where n stands for any time not equal to 1.
4-dimensionalism doesn't seem to say anything with respect to this, partly because it begs the question: it assumes that a thing is the same as itself over time, and proves this by claiming that objects are the same as themselves over time...
Any thoughts on this?
If you take the notion of purpose in regards to Theseus' ship - then it is the same as T1 as any point within Tn.
In reading further on the topic, I realized that 4-dimensionalist theory is often confused (as I just did) with Perdurantism - where you are related to the various temporal parts (time slices) throughout your persisting existence, so thereby saying that the sum of the parts equals the whole of you. I'm not sure if I understood that correctly - or fumbled in the translation, so if you can elaborate that would be helpful.
If you do take purpose into account, the ship is the exact same ship as it started - regardless of its accidental properties being replaced. The second ship's purpose is not the same as Theseus', even if it did follow through all of the same events as Theseus' original ship did. If you look at Theseus' original purpose as being P1, then the other ship's purpose would come out expressively as 2(P1), or just a copy of the original - still not being entirely the same as Theseus' ship as its original purpose is to copy, not to explore. Is my logic semi-correct at least?!
Correction to my representation of the second ship as 2(P1), as that would just be 2 of the original ship. I mean to say P1 (subscript 1) as a variation of P1 with the same properties, though still differing by purpose. Can anyone tell me if the 2nd representation would be the correct one? Regardless of the symbol, I think the logic still holds true.
I think its no longer the originl ship once a single part is changed or replaced.
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